Welcome to Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast, your go-to resource for safe digging and protecting Illinois's underground infrastructure. Each episode, we'll share practical tips, real stories, and expert insights to help you dig smart, stay safe, and keep your projects on solid ground. Brought to you by Julie Illinois Facility Notification Center.

Hello and welcome to Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast brought to you by Julie Illinois Facility Notification Center. I'm your host Jill Sailer. Thanks for tuning in today. In this episode, we're taking you behind the scenes to explore the world of locators, the people who keep our project safe before the digging even begins. You'll hear first-hand stories about their daily challenges, the rewards of the job, and the vital role they play in preventing damage, promoting safety, and keeping everything running smoothly. But before we get started, I'll check in with my co-host today, Brian MacKenzie. Brian, how you doing?

Hello, Jill. Good to see you.

Good to see you. Hey, this is going to be a topic that's very close to you cuz you spent more than 25 years in the damage prevention industry and you started as a locator, correct?

I did when I started locating many many years ago. My hair was long and it blew in the breeze. And what you see now here is uh the result of decades of of locating and dealing with this industry.

Well, then I'm sure that you're very familiar with today's guest, Billy Blackstock. Yes, I am. Billy and I go way back.

Well, for those who don't know Billy, let me do a little bit of an introduction. Billy is the utility locating supervisor at TWM. Uh he leads a team responsible for identifying and marking underground utilities to keep excavation projects safe and compliant and he has years of hands-on field experience. So Billy brings practical expertise and leadership to one of the most critical steps in damage prevention. So thanks Billy for joining us today.

Well, thank you for having me.

Fantastic. We could all of our two million listeners out here, Billy. We could talk for four days about locating issues, but uh we're going to try to narrow it down and keep a lid on it, but uh I am so excited you're here. Like I say, you and I have worked together out in the field. We sling slung paint together. So that you know, that's how far back we go. And uh I've got a lot of good questions for you today. So Okay. I'd like to kind of start off with can you walk through what a typical day looks like for a locator and how would you judge a successful locate?

That's it's kind of it can be kind of detailed, but I mean, you start your morning out, the first thing you're going to do is uh probably look at the weather to make sure how you're going to dress because it can change and it changes fast here in Illinois, just like it does probably everywhere else. But, you know, once you get that done, you open up your computer or or your ability to look at whatever tickets you have access to and you start reviewing them and and seeing, you know, where you're going to be. You kind of route yourself out. Um, and then get into your day and stuff. And, you know, probably the most important thing is safety. Um, you know, I've always felt, you know, you're like one step away from an accident kind of thing. And whether it be you're stepping around the corner of a building or you're stepping out around the corner of a car, you know, it can happen so fast. And it's like you just got to be safe. You know, that's the number one priority. Everything else will fall into place. You know, that's that's the important thing is you'll get it done.

I imagine though the even your surroundings have changed back as buses have changed. More cell phones, more people not paying attention. That's that can be very very scary for a locator when you're actually located on the road.

Yeah. And and still today, there's people that I don't care how many cones you put on around your car, how many flashing lights you got going on, there's still people that just fly by, you know, and and that's why it's like you can't just rely upon doing those things that keep you safe, you know, wearing your safety vest, you know, the class class 3 safety vest and all the reflective stuff. you know, you've got to keep your own eyes open and your aware of all your surroundings going on. I mean, you really do.

How has the getting back to the tickets and the locating side of things, how has this mandatory pre-marking along with the Julie ticket helped you deal with some of the the amount of locating requests that you get?

Oh man, it is like heaven sent. That's all I can tell you. I mean, there has been in the past so much going on about locating the entire property or or whatever when they knew they were digging in one area, you know, and and even as a locator, you would know that they were doing that. You just something as simple as planting one tree and they want you to locate the whole front yard. you know, when you come in on your utilities are on one side of the yard and your trees being planted over in the other, it's it's just it's awesome. I mean, it increases our efficiency and uh productivity like you wouldn't know how. You know, so it's it's just phenomenal.

It's it's always fascinating because Sorry, Jill, but go ahead. You answer your question, I'll jump in.

Well, I was just going to ask, Billy, as a as a homeowner, like, is there anything that I can do to help a locator to make sure that they're safe or anything that I can do as a homeowner?

Well, you know what? That's that's really a very, very good question because, you know, we'll get locates called in not just from home homeowners, but also contractors. Contractors tell you to, "Hey, we're digging in the backyard." and they may not inform the home homeowner and lo and behold the homeowner's gone and there's a doggy door in the back door. It's like you don't know that. When you go into that backyard, every single time you enter a backyard, you better be looking for signs right away. I mean, as you're walking next to the house to see if you hear dogs barking and if they're following you and you stop at that back gate before you go in it and you start looking around and it's like, "Oh, yeah. I I my best friend at that time is my spray gun. You know, I've never had to spray a dog, but I've sprayed Adam and that was enough to keep him backed away from you so you could get back out of the yard."

I like to quote Bill Ingvol there. That dog won't bite. He's always got blood on his lips, you know. But, uh, you got to be careful because as you're, you know, for our listeners out there that those machines make very high frequency noises that you and I may not be able to hear, which could potentially drive the dog crazy. So, there you go. There's your little dog lesson on locating. So, please make sure those dogs are put up, folks.

Oh, yes, sir. It's It's Anytime. I'm telling you, every single time you go in a backyard, you better be looking for something along those lines. That's usually the most common thing. I mean, there's other things, don't get me wrong, but that's probably one of the most common.

Good. Good. Well, I'm a dog owner, so that's good. The good tip for me, I'll make sure my dog is secure and um that there's nothing in the way for you guys to be able to get in and do your job, too. Good. Good advice. Thank you.

That's crucial. I mean, if you ask the locators come out, if you ask the locators to come to your property, please make sure they can access the property properly, you know, to get the job done for you. Let's have another conversation though about all of these large projects that are coming out there and with the ability now for pre-marking, with the ability to upload maps, with the ability to have joint meets to to communicate now that the law has changed. What are some of the biggest challenges for you now with this? Because again this ties off to my other question because we hear people saying well the locators are late all the time. Okay. But there comes a point where we have to look at why and if just like that the project that you have you had a joint meet with with seven different joint meets trying to get the information out there. How do you how do you combat that? You know it

I think there's just some people that don't care. I I don't know what to say. Don't care. I don't I don't know how to explain it. I mean, you've got the majority of the people that do the right thing. And and that's the great thing about it, but then you do have these other people that for whatever reason, I mean, they're I don't know, maybe it's something so big for them that they're just so wrapped up in their own little duties and stuff that they just don't quite understand or something. But the approach I take is honestly I I try to communicate with the contractor and we'll continue to communicate with him until I feel things are right and we fully understand each other. But uh I think that's the key is it's the communication level that you have to develop between you and your contractors. So it's like once that occurs then they they start seeing you as if it was them and then they start to understand, oh yeah, that's why I need to do this and and and so forth and and everything, but yeah, you've got to keep communicating to them and and not from a standpoint, you know, where you want to turn them off, you know, it's like you can't be upset or whatever. You just got to be on a level tone just having a discussion with them and and and trying to get on their good side basically kind of thing. I mean, you really that's how you have to approach them if you have to because you don't want to make them upset, right? You know, I mean, you're for fear of making things worse. So, I mean, you just have to try to appeal to their sense of righteousness.

What's something that you really like about your job?

Oh, man. I tell you, I love being outside. You know, it can be cold, it can be hot, you know, that's just life. And it rains, okay? But that's that's the exciting thing to me is just being outside. And you you can dress for being cold. You can undress for being hot. And and granted, it's still hot even beyond that still. But, you know, nowadays we got air conditioned cars, so it's like if you get too hot, you can go run over and get cooled off real quick. And that's the wonderful thing about that. It's like and you get out and invariably even though you're doing a job and you're doing it by yourself, you're still running into people, you know, and you get to talk to people and uh you hear quite some stories and stuff and just it's it's it's kind of a social thing, but yet it's individual kind of thing.

So, it's like best of both worlds.

Yes. Yes.

It was it was really fascinating as a locator. You get to see you get a ticket for building a foundation. Then you get a ticket for installing sewer and water. So you actually watch a home grow. You actually watch it be, you know, from the the foundation being built, from the walls going up, from the roof going on, the sewer, water, electric, then the landscaping and the homeowner. Then you're coming back for the fence and then the landscaping. It's really that's one thing that I really enjoyed about that was seeing how things evolved and because I'm I like to learn. And I like to see things, you know, I'm a visual learner. And that was one of the greatest things is seeing things, you know,

and people remodeling homes and and making additions and stuff like that. And you see a before and after kind of thing. And it's it's pretty neat. You get definitely get some ideas.

Now, think about when you first started. How have the tools and the technology changed over time? Do you see things getting better from when we first started?

Absolutely. You know, it was still a matter back then of trying to send a signal down a line. But nowadays, you've got equipment that can tell you pretty accurately how deep things are. You can send a signal down the line and it tells you that your signal is going a certain direction. And so then if you happen to jump over to a different line and now that directional signal is going the wrong way, you know you've jumped on to a different line. You've got equipment now that gives you multiple antennas at the same time and you can see the readouts from them as in peak and null. So you can tell if a signal's been is distorted. And there's a mathematical formula there that you can tell how far to move over to put your marks down so that you stay dead on the line. I mean, it has come along tremendously.

They're also even on top of being the ability to locate in depth and things like that. They're also now given the ability to for the end user to like place marking balls and things to update maps too. Oh, so you can not only locate, but you can update your maps at the same time.

I I'm using a piece of equipment right now. I can take uh survey grade quality shots on as I take and locate that line. I can take a shot on it and it'll get uploaded to the world live. Mhm. Kind of thing. And it it's just phenomenal. So now somebody can have a record of their locate with GPS coordinates and stuff. And I forgot about that. Oh my gosh, that's that's phenomenal.

Life changing.

It is.

For people out there that um and there are a lot of municipalities out there that have not taken good records of their maps where their information is. And now with the ability with these new locating equipment that are out there, they can slowly start to rebuild their maps and put them into a GIS situation or whatever it's going to be. But technology is changing that the theory is the same, right? Applying a signal, finding the signal. But you're right. The the information the way you gather the information is changing too as well. So yeah.

Yes.

You know, we're locators. We're we're exo or I'm a retired locator and I've got so many stories like fishing stories, you know, but do you have a memorable story that really drives the the fact home where a unique situation where locating truly is why it is so important?

You know, there's so much going on nowadays. It's just unreal with high-pressure gas lines, with fiber optic cables that have the ability to carry and people be so dependent on that information right now. It It's just unreal. But I mean, probably one of the closest calls I'm aware of, I wasn't necessarily personally involved with it, but was with a high-pressure gas man. There was an actual mislocate and it was actually verified by, I would say, an unqualified individual. And thank God the digger um as and this goes on a lot as I because I I'm doing a lot of construction observation now. Those people that run those back hoes can develop a certain feel for resistance in the ground and they can tell when they think they've hit something. And in this particular case, they hit a high-pressure gas mane and they just knew, oh man, something's not right here. And they stopped and sure enough, they they exposed it and it could have been catastrophic. I mean, you I've seen videos of people that weren't that fortunate and had a huge fireball, you know, kind of thing, and it's unreal. But no, with today's age and stuff with so much important stuff in the ground, it's it's critical, you know, to be as accurate as you can be with your locates.

And it's another reason why to make sure that the information that goes into the Julie ticket in the first part on the user's end that they get as much information out to you, the locator, as possible. Where, when, what, how, what am I doing? Fill up that that information as much as you can. You know, people think, well, I don't want to give you too much information. No, please, more information, maps, show me what you're doing. Tell me what you're doing. That will help you in the end. Avoid a situation like you just talked about.

And and and that goes back to your prior question about the biggest challenges you face. You know, I don't think you hear anybody saying, "I have too much information." You know, and and so the more that you can give me or your locator, the better job they'll more than likely do.

Yep.

You know, that's the truth.

100%.

Well, this Brian, do you have any other questions for Billy?

Well, like I said, we could go on for days and days and days. And this, you know, maybe we'll have Billy back for part two on this.

Oh, there you go.

You know, again, the biggest thing I I would like to help um everyone realize again is is the more information the better. Just as Billy had pointed out, makes a better locate. It really really does on your end.

Yeah, it really does. When we know when we know that locate's going right through that dig, you can bet we are focused to try to get as accurate as possible. And I pride myself throughout my years of being within inches. If I knew where you if somebody was digging, I would be try to be as dead on as I could be.

Yes.

You know, and because the time they take to hand dig it, you know, they want to know they're right on. You know, they want to know it's right there and they're more careful there when they're digging. So when it when you're a foot 18 in or even more off and they have to dig more then they probably use that uh lose that um patience level and they start digging faster and harder and you know it's like so yeah. No, I've I've always prided myself on that accuracy when I knew where they were digging.

Fantastic.

Excellent. Well, Billy, thanks for giving us a real world look at what it takes to be a locator. We appreciate that and we appreciate you and everything you do to keep your team and your project safe and on track.

Well, thank you for having me. I certainly appreciate it.

Great. Uh and to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast. If you want to learn a little bit more about Julie, be sure to check out our website, juliebeforyoudig.com, and you can find all kinds of resources there that will support you whether you're a homeowner, a contractor, or a utility professional. So until next time, stay safe and remember, safe digging is in your hands. Contact Julie before you dig.