Welcome to JULIE's Toolbox Talks podcast, your go-to resource for safe digging and protecting Illinois's underground infrastructure. Each episode, we'll share practical tips, real stories, and expert insights to help you dig smart, stay safe, and keep your projects on solid ground. Brought to you by JULIE, Illinois Facility Notification Center.

Hello and welcome to JULIE's Toolbox Talks brought to you by JULIE, the Illinois Facility Notification Center. I'm your host, Brian MacKenzie. Thank you for joining us today. Today we're going to be bringing the heat. It's hot out there. It's absolutely crazy. So, I brought in an expert subject today. I needed him to come in here today because he is this is up his wheelhouse. Just here are a few examples of some of the things that he offers. Workplace audits, incident investigations, OSHA compliance, and safety training services, just to name a few. He is the president of Allied Safety Group. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest is Nicholas Guilfoyle. Thank you for being here today, Nick.

Hey, appreciate it, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. Today, again, we're going to be talking about heat, ladies and gentlemen. I am completely guilty of this. Uh, I'm one of those that, you know, I can make it a little bit longer outside. Just, you know, give me another ice cold Pepsi. I'm completely out of my wheelhouse here. That's why I brought Nick. Thank you for being here today again. So, let's just talk about it. I mean, what exactly is heat stress?

Uh, heat stress is essentially when your body's ability to maintain a stable internal temperature uh it's overwhelmed. It can be overwhelmed by uh environmental heat, um any metabolic heat, basically from physical activity, things that you're doing. Um clothing, personal protective equipment, anything that traps you. It's your body's inability to maintain a proper temperature. Um happens indoors, outdoors, it can really happen anywhere. Uh we often see it mostly construction sites and a lot of times we think, well, it's just relegated to those workers that are outside, right? But I think we tend to forget that folks working indoors in industrial facilities, manufacturing facilities, limited air flow, uh they don't have to be in direct sunlight to still have uh some effects of heat stress. Okay, your body cools itself through uh heat exchange with the environment. That's sweating, right? Sweating is a good thing. It helps us uh cool our body down. But when you have days like today out here locally where we're at in the Midwest, uh central Illinois, we have really high humidity right now. Uh that hinders that that process. So when you're sweating, high humidity environment doesn't allow for the evaporation of that sweat off your skin. Doesn't allow for that heat transfer. So it's not just the temperature, it's also that humidity.

So what are some of the common misconceptions about working in the heat? We hear them all.

That's a really good question. Um and again, I actually take a step back, Brian. Like I said, I'm actually out on a project uh throughout the summer here. I'm out in the heat. We're out in the field with these workers. I don't just sit back here and talk about it. Um, but it doesn't just affect those outdoor workers. Like I said, a lot of folks think that, well, if I'm not outside, I'm not going to have to worry too much about uh heat. Quite the contrary. Um, inside indoor work environments is especially dangerous where you're near machinery, ovens, uh, uh, steam that can raise those indoor temperatures, particularly if you have limited or no ventilation. Um, another misconception is drinking water is the only way to prevent heat stress. Uh, hydration's essential, but we have to have some other strategies involved. Uh, we need to take rest breaks in cool areas, have shade available for us. Um, utilize light, breathable apparel. Okay. Um, we want to, uh, uh, avoid trapping that heat in around our body. Um, you also want to make sure you're acclimatizing. What I mean by that is you want to limit if you're new into a hot working environment. I'm going to say 80 degrees Fahrenheit or higher. Uh you get to those areas where maybe I'm normally a desk jockey where you see me here at my office and I'm not doing anything but sitting in this wonderful AC, right? It's great. Well, even though I do this for a living, I know that if I'm going to go out and I'm going to take on a project that I'm going to need to take some time to climatize. Um I've lived in the desert. I’ve traveled around the globe. It doesn't matter how much I expose myself to it. I need to take the time before jumping right into it. Reduce the duration of exposure. Okay? If you're going to be out in the heat, take more frequent rest breaks as you go to acclimatize. Uh make sure you're limiting the uh duration of that strenuous work. Right? If I'm digging ditches by hand, maybe I need to limit that to not 10 hours that first day I'm out in the field. Okay? So, it's not just drinking water. That's not the only way to prevent heat stress. Um, a few other ones are, uh, that heat stress only occurs when temperatures are extremely high. It can happen at moderate temperatures if that humidity is high. Okay? So, we could have a really low humidity uh, high temperature, 90 degrees plus, and I'll actually feel better in a dry environment than I feel with 80 degrees and high humidity. Brian, I don't know if you've ever heard people say, well, you know, it's a it's a dry heat or I'm in the southwest. I swear you it does. I enjoy the desert uh much more working in the heat because it allows for that uh evaporation of sweat off my skin, that heat transfer. So, it doesn't just have to happen when temperatures are really high. Um, couple other ones I took some notes here I wanted to uh touch on. It’s not a minor or temporary issue. Uh it's life-threatening. Okay? From dizziness to nausea, confusion, and seizures, this is not something to take lightly. Folks assume, oh, I work out in heat all the time. I'm fine. It's no big deal. No, it doesn't matter. It can still affect you. It's still uh just as dangerous as a struck by hazard, uh a confined space, a fall hazard. We need to treat it as such. Uh and then last uh last misconception I see too is it's, you know, if you're a physically fit worker, um you don't have to worry about heat stress. It's not the case. Now, I'm going to preface that by saying you want to be in some good physical condition. Okay. Um, not everybody has the time or ability to sit there and spend all day every day eating healthy, buying the right products, uh, going to the gym every day. But what we can do is uh we can try to maintain some level of physical fitness and a good healthy diet and some moderate exercise. Okay? Anybody can be at risk, including older adults, kids, people with chronic illnesses. Um, if you're on certain medications, okay, even if you're physically fit, that medication can affect your ability to maintain and regulate a good body temperature in those high heat environments and anything with heavy exertion. Um, it's preventable, uh, 100% preventable, but it can affect everybody.

That is, you know, that's a great point because I'm a heart attack survivor, you know, and it's I have to watch the food eat. I have to be careful uh if I'm shoveling snow or something in the winter, whatever it is. But you don't often think about the heat because again, it's summertime. I'm supposed to be out there. I'm supposed to be doing that kind of thing. But my concern always was is a couple questions to you, follow-up questions, is it sounds like it doesn't matter if you're experienced or inexperienced. I mean it either one can get you in the heat.

Yeah, it's uh inexperienced workers definitely you need to pay attention to. Okay. Um and I was pulling up I was trying to pull up some case studies of some incidents and if I remember one that stuck with me and I tried to have it in my notes here that new worker coming out uh to work for a contractor didn't normally do any physical activity in their primary means of employment. Okay. They were uh somebody like myself, like a desk jockey like I was uh for a while here. Um they go out, they want to impress the boss. They want to do a great job. They know that, hey, you know, maybe I'm a middle-aged man and pride is something I have to where I want to get the job done. I want to do a job. I don't want to seem weak. I don't want to seem like I can't do this, right? Well, you're starting to ignore those signs and symptoms that, hey, you need to be acclimatizing. you need to let somebody know that uh you're not doing so hot. That that's kind of a given with some of these newer workers. The challenge is having an experienced worker monitor that person. Okay, they're wanting to do an awesome job. I was that person where I'm just going to suck it up and I'm going to get it done. Downside is you may not succumb to uh heat exhaustion, heat stroke, heat illness that evening, but you're not setting yourself up very well for the next day. And there were cases where somebody would die the next day from that exposure. Um so yes your new workers you must monitor you may must pay attention to designate somebody competent person a foreman to require breaks for everybody. Now conversely on the other side of that experienced workers can have a false sense of ah yeah I've been working in this I'm fine no big deal I'm okay. Uh you know they can still suffer from heat related impairments uh before reaching heat exhaustion or stroke. Um hand eye coordination, balance, reaction time, cognitive function, uh muscular performance, um all that's going to lead to potential slip trip fall issues. Okay? And if we're working in a a highly dangerous work environment, say we're near electrical energized electrical conductors, we may have, you know, we've got our PPE and stuff on, but did we miss a step in our PPE? Did we miss a step in a lockout tagout process? Because hey, I've been doing this for 30 years. I've got it all figured out, right? It goes back to that pride thing, a little bit of arrogance. Guess what? You might miss a step. Um, so, so heat doesn't discriminate is what I would take away.

I love that you brought that up because that is, oh my goodness, the number of times that I hear that I've been doing it 30 years. I'm only going out there for a minute. I'm only digging this deep. I'm only only only doing this. And this is where the problems come in. And it is it is the mindset when you are on a crew. It's one thing to have somebody monitoring you, seeing the stages, seeing that you know you're going down or whatever it is. But now let's talk about the guy who's in the field by himself, the locator. That was me. All 13 years of my there wasn't anybody say, "Brian, you need to go relax. Brian, you need to take a break." No, that's the pride thing again. I'm going to get this locate finished cuz I got to get on to the next one. Whatever it is, I push myself. And I love how you bring up the fact that it messes with people's minds because again guys, if you're a locator out there and you're by yourself and you want to get that locate done and you're not going to pay as extra attention to that one. So, are there any other types of drinks or anything that could help with this other than just water?

Uh I usually tell people try to cycle in uh some of diluted juice. You don't want to do a bunch of juice, a bunch of sugar and stuff in it. A diluted natural fruit juice. Um something with electrolytes in it. Um and to step back on your on your point on the lone worker. That's extremely important um to at least be contacting a foreman leader. If you're that foreman manager, contact your people on a regular basis. It's a reminder. If somebody gets upset that I'm telling them they need to make sure you're drinking water and hydrating, fine. I can sleep at night if you're upset with that, but I know that you're going to be getting home safe. Um but yes, there are there are different drinks and stuff that I would recommend. Uh avoid your energy drinks. Um avoid these things we call diuretics. They're going to increase your urine output. They're going to accelerate fluid loss. Uh particularly potassium and sodium. Uh those are essential minerals, electrolytes necessary for a healthy body function. Um I know it may seem like you're getting hydrated, you pound that monster. And I even see a couple kids uh I think yesterday morning that had two monsters with them. And I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, guys, come on now. Let's let's do something a little better." Now, I can't say I can't say much cuz I sit there and drink coffee and I like tea. I don't drink really soda anymore. It's personal choice. But what I do recommend is water, electrolytes, but hydrate the day before. Don't hydrate that morning. Um, hydration is not going it's not going to help you when it's 90° out, 7:00 a.m., you get to work, and you start pounding some water. That's not going to be as effective for you. Do it the night before. Okay.

That's great. Great things that you bring up. I mean, like you said, I am so so guilty of that. And as I sit here and I got a Pepsi right in front of me, I don't want to show you. I'm that embarrassed that, you know, it's right there. But I do have one. So, you know, I just want people to understand it is extremely important. Again, I never set out to have a heart attack that day. I never set out. So, please make sure you're taking care of yourself before your health requires makes you forces your hand to do that. So, and you can do this by the simple steps that Nick has brought in today. Hydrating before you guys go out. This isn't going to go any way. We just started. It's just a lie. I mean, we're not we're just getting into it.

I guess I did forget to put in um and you can reference this if you send it out. So, NIOSH has uh I want to see if you can actually see it here.

Um Oh, yeah. That heat thing.

Yeah, I didn't think to put that out there. This is what it looks like on the dashboard. And you can't really there's you got a little bit of time to cover stuff in here, but when it comes to OSHA compliance and I don't like to start out with just OSHA compliance because people think, oh, we just got to do stuff because of OSHA. No, we want to do it because it's the right thing to do. Absolutely. And keep each other safe. But compliance officers will use that that this heat app tool, excuse me. And it's great because not only are you going to know what your ambient real temperature is, it's got uh symptoms on here. Heat stroke, heat exhaustion. It goes through different signs and symptoms. It goes through different first aid procedures. So workers, people, the public can take a look at this and think, you know, I can get myself a little bit of education before, you know, we go out and sit in the sun all day at the ball game or something.

And I think that's something else we forgot to bring up, too, is another thing. I just got an alert from the state police that, you know, you've got concrete out there buckling on the interstate. That's something you don't think of when you're driving down the interstate in your air conditioning that, hey, that concrete may buckle. I'm going to go for a ride. I mean, I I'm sure you've seen it, but they you can get pretty launched on some of those.

So, asphalt is starting to melt. Um, motorcycles will fall over because the kickstand on it will uh I've had that happen on a bike. I have before. Um, it's bad out there. And even my concrete floor in my garage is sweating. Like it looks wet.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And it's Yeah. No, I'm actually going to take uh I've got uh squinchers. I order squinchers for our customers. Uh the popsicle ones. I'm going to take two of my personal fans. We got some welders. They're going to be welding excavations. So, I'm going to take those out there because they're better than what they have.

So, do you recommend a personal fan? I mean, that's I keep them with me all the time. You never know, you know.

Yeah. Anything a personal fan like that. I have some big round ones that will run off of a generator that are uh they're noisy, but they're Menard sells them and they push a ton of air to keep these guys cool. And additionally, we're doing welding. We don't want to be breathing those uh those gases. So, it helps keep that away from your breathing zone. So, we can accomplish a few things with it.

Yeah. Pro tip there, folks. If you're going to buy the big fans around my area, make sure you get them before the start of the state fair because they buy them to put them in with the horses and the cows. So, they are great fans to move a lot of air like Nicholas mentioned there. So, another pro tip, air circulation constantly. Anything else you feel you missed?

I would say if you're looking at your folks, they need to be sweating. Um, you know, with a combination of different medications, you can have different colored urine. You can have different frequency of urination. But you want to make sure you're urinating. A rule of thumb I like to have is uh, you know, my early 40s. If I feel like I have to go to the bathroom, I have to urinate, then I know I'm at least getting some fluids in there. Um, I typically try to make sure I' I've got a relatively clear color to it. Again, there's many factors involved in that, but what you must take action on is if that worker around you is not sweating anymore. Okay? If they stop sweating, that's immediate 911. I don't care who you are, you need to be getting that person to shade. Get them cooled down because their body is already exhausted as primary means of cooling itself off, right? By sweating. If we stop sweating, um, you're on a downhill slope very fast.

That's a great pro tip number three. I think we'll call that one. And if you're not sweating, get to 911. Get to shade. Get some medical attention quickly because you're you you're past the point, right?

Here's the thing. The call's free. It doesn't cost a time to call 911 and you can get professionals on the horn that that can help walk you through if you're forgetting some first aid measures. Um, you know, and you at least have that call out there. It's free. I tell folks, we teach first aid, CPR, AED training. You got the power right here on your phone to be able to save a life.

It's amazing you say it. Call 811. Call 911. They're free calls. They're free services. They're there for a reason, ladies and gentlemen, if you need them. I mean, that's can't stress that one enough.

Yeah. We can't we can't complain if we're not using the resources that are readily available for us.

And you bring up a great point about the urine color. I know you and I, we're not doctors, right? But we've always been I've always been instructed that we're looking for the clear. And if it's a very very dark gold color, got you got a problem. Because I'm flushing a lot out of my system. You know, the hypothalamus regulates your temperature like that and particularly with uh loss of potassium and sodium in there, you could be losing uh fluid faster than you than you normally would, especially if you're using those diuretics, those energy drinks, uh things that increase urination.

I will say though, you know, if I take like a multivitamin or something, it's going to change the color of because you're only going to be able to absorb so much and then your body's going to excrete out the rest. So, it's a on an individual basis, you know, analyze what you've gotten and look at those uh side effects of any medication you're on and don't just crumple it up, throw it away. Pay attention to it.

Absolutely. It's um you know, again, heart attack, I've got to pay close attention to that kind of stuff, too. And it's another thing that people may not forget. And hopefully this will check a box that somebody goes home and oh, I'm not supposed to be out in the heat. I'm not supposed to be doing this or that and the other. And uh again, we want to make sure that you guys everybody out there is making the good calls, the good judgment calls because again, as they had mentioned that this really does affect your ability to make informed decisions, wouldn't you say? I mean, that's

Yeah. Your cognitive ability uh you know your attention your alertness can severely be degraded and in turn you could be making mistakes you know it could cost your life or the lives of others around you too.

So I'd like to ask you one more question I love to end my podcast this way because it's a kind of a feel-good story but have you ever been able to help somebody in that situation has there been a life-threatening situation that you were able to stop to help to avoid somebody let us know.

Uh I've had uh I wouldn't say life-saving, but a real shocker to me about the exposure of heat when I was uh I was in the Marine Corps. I was training out in California getting ready to uh deploy I think either back to Iraq or Afghanistan and we were in the Mojave Desert doing a training exercise and we actually had a Marine succumb to heat exposure um fatal uh because we just were not pushing hydration. Talked about it, but a lot of us had exhausted our water and we were only carrying so much because he had all this other gear. Um, so from that point on, it really hit me hard how important uh hydration is. And to answer your question, um I do get folks that come up and say, "Hey, you know, since I started hydrating the night before, and you're drinking alcohol or whatever other stuff on a on an evening, it's summertime, it's beautiful out." They're having some water the night before, staying hydrated, they're telling me, "Listen, I feel better in the morning. I'm actually getting better sleep. I'm waking up better. Um I'm uh urinating frequently enough throughout the day. I’m not going days uh you know the full day anymore without urinating. They're telling me how they feel better. How they're then taking that information and they're sharing it with others. That's the only thing I ask is it take this information as success and pass it on to others. That's the best thing you can do. As an employer, you got to require people to take breaks, but as individuals, you know, Brian, you tell me something's been effective for you, I'm as a friend, I'm going to listen to you and say, you know, I'm going to try that. That's a success story I like to hear.

And I think you're right and it goes back to pride in your work, right? I mean, it's you've seen it. You've unfortunately had to witness a fatality because of that. So, you're very strong in safety and I am I am very passionate about what I do too. And then when we start throwing in heart attacks too because again that happened to me. So, if we're able to help somebody out there, some listener today that you were able to pick up just one thing, we have succeeded today. So with that, I thank you so much for being here, Nicholas. I’ve worked with this guy, guys, for over a decade now on numerous trainings. He's got a plethora of things available for you. Please reach out to him. Again, I want to thank you for being here today on the JULIE podcast show today. Thank you for being here. Have a great day.