Welcome to Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast, your go-to resource for safe digging and protecting Illinois's underground infrastructure. Each episode, we'll share practical tips, real stories, and expert insights to help you dig smart, stay safe, and keep your projects on solid ground. Brought to you by Julie Illinois Facility Notification Center.

Hello and welcome to Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast. Brought to you by Julie Illinois Facility Notification Center. I'm your host Jill Sailer. Thanks for joining us. In today's episode, we're going to explore something that is absolutely essential to safe digging across Illinois, the Watch and Protect program. We're going to break down what it is, how it works, and why it plays such an important role in protecting our communities, contractors, and critical infrastructure. You'll hear firsthand how Watch and Protect helps reduce risks and strengthen communication in the field. But before we get started, I'd like to bring in my co-host, Brian MacKenzie. Brian uh joined Julie in 2012, and he's been a trusted voice in damage prevention and a constant resource for stakeholders throughout central Illinois. Brian, how are we doing today?

I'm great. How about you?

I'm doing well, thank you. Well, Brian, let's meet our guest, Aaron Hoerchler. Aaron is operations manager for Kinder Morgan, overseeing pipeline operations and one call coordination along 150 miles of southern Illinois. He manages compliance, budgets, and more than 3,000 Julie locate requests each year. Aaron has also served as treasurer on Julie's board since 2019, bringing tremendous operational insight and dedication to damage prevention. So Brian, go ahead. Take it away.

Welcome Aaron. Good to see you again.

Hey Brian.

This topic here is a very near and dear to my heart for my my father worked at Panhandle Eastern for 35 years. He's the underground storage field supervisor. So I was a a little little boy when he really let me in on some of these lessons. So I'm glad you're here. I I I'm 100% behind this this program here and I'm glad that you're here to explain it. So I I really want to jump in here and I want to let the listeners get familiarized with what is this watch and protect program that you have going on.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, watch and protect is when a utility is actively monitoring um an excavation while it's going on. Um you know, it provides a open line of communication during the excavation between the utility um operator along with the homeowner and or contractor. um you know by uh not utilizing watch protect you know any any delays um expansive uh costs or even catastrophic uh instances uh can occur you know if good communication is not associated with it yeah Kinder Morgan's been doing it for probably about 15 years now and and that has drastically reduced our uh our issues that we've had with line strikes um and and basically it's really helped our communication. You know, one one thing I really would like to to stress with watch and protect is it's it's watch protect is not designed to slow down a a project. It's designed to make sure that everybody gets to go home safe at the end of the project.

I'm glad you mentioned that because that that is one thing in the law change with watch protect becoming mandatory that it is not designed to hang up that excavator. It is designed to to help you and achieve what you're wanting to do because like I said, nobody wants to have a damage especially on one of these major pipelines.

Yeah, for sure.

What are some of the most common risk or challenges you see in the field and how do watch protects help prevent that?

You know, a lot of the um a lot of the risks when when uh Julie is called in, typically uh a utility is only marked with, you know, paint or a flag. And a lot of times it's just a center line, you know, especially from the natural gas industry, you know, the the the center line of the pipe. It could be a two anywhere from a 2 inch line all the way up to 48 inch or even bigger, you know. So that that flag is only symbolizing, you know, purposely the center of it. So an excavator, you know, won't know, you know, okay, well, the flag's here, so I'm good if I go over two feet. Well, that two feet might be the end of the line. And and the other thing with the risk is there there's a lot of times that the depth of the pipeline is not known. There's been many many um you know, it went in at a certain depth. However, uh with erosion and and naturally occurring, you know, items that depth could went from 48 inches to 12 inches. So, so that's some of the risks and the challenges.

I am so glad you mentioned that because that is one thing that I heard when I was locating. That's one thing that I heard continued today. Just because it's big doesn't mean it's deep. Right. You hit it on the head. It's required to go to a certain depth, but it's not required to be, you know, you don't know who was there before you. How much soil, top soil did they remove. I've seen that numerous times. So, pro tip number one, ladies and gentlemen, I am so glad the law has changed to where to allow locators to now let people know the size of that utility facility because as you mentioned, we have a 48 inch gas man in Illinois, ladies and gentlemen. A 48 inch gas man. The tolerant zone in 18 is 18 inches either side of that mark. So that pipe is as big as a tolerance zone. Without you knowing that again this is just another reason why that watch protect is so crucial. How do contractors, locators and homeowners do they benefit from understanding and using this process?

You know communication is key. You know, like like I talked about, you know, you know, in the beginning, by by having Watch Protect, the contractor is there, the homeowner is there with with the utility owner. Um, the utility or the utility owner has the ability then to to firsthand educate, you know, the contractor, the homeowner as to what is actually what is actually there, what are the what are the challenges? Um it's just a excellent way of communication and you know really for for a project to go well uh for no instances communication is the key and that communication can help um them in the future too. You know it it shows them what the utilities policies and procedures are and they could take that with them in future projects even if it's not you know around a pipeline or or a big utility just just a dog fence you know underground dog fence. It's just an experience and it's a way to train.

Yeah. And I like too I think it really reinforces it too then Erin is that it this is a shared responsibility for everyone. For the contractors, the locators, it's a shared responsibility.

100%. You're exactly right. You know, the project is only going to go as well as the contract as well as the communication goes. So, if there's a break in the communication from the contractor to the utility or the utility to the contractor, you know, there's breaks there, too. I'm I can't say that we're 100% perfect. I I'm hoping we're about 99.9, but but really, you know, there is a break both ways at some point some at some times.

So, I'd kind of like to let the let our listeners know what all goes into a watch to protect. I mean, what are what am I, the excavator or the homeowner? What am I expected to happen during this process?

You know, the the watch and protect, like I said, you know, we're the utility company is going to be on site. We're we're right there while you're while you're doing any excavation. Our policy is that we're there whenever anybody is excavating within 10 ft. Um, typically though, however, it's usually with within 25 ft just for a buffer. Um, however, what that will do is that will allow us uh the utility owner to ensure that uh you know the line you know once you take that first load uh first scoop of dirt off top of the pipeline your your marks are gone you know so that that allows us to continually monitor make sure you know we keep our depth make sure we stay out of that 18inch tolerant zone. um you know, you you don't want to get inside it. And and the other thing, you know, depending on on what type of equipment you're using, um specifically like uh um earth movers, you know, that that's a lot of stress on on pipelines and stuff like that just because of the weight and the the start wheel basease. So that allows us to ensure that that we're going around the pipeline or or designated areas where it's not going to affect it because, you know, even though, yeah, you didn't hit the line now, you know, maybe you weakened it, you know, and it could cause issues in the future. So really, it's just a a way to monitor it and just make sure that you're not only safe now, but you're also safe in the future.

And I also want to let our our listeners know that a watch protect could be done for any utility facility, not just gas. Perhaps there's a transite water mane that a utility wants to stand by over. There's not really a way to successfully locate it, but the consequences from a damage would be extensive should that happen. But I want people to understand that that on these large gas manses, there's cathotic protection. There's a there's a coating on these gas manses that help keep that from from rusting. And unfortunately, we have excavators in Illinois that dig by braille, right? Smack, smack, smack. They dig along. They knock that coating off. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what they are watching on this pipeline to make sure that that stays intact because believe it or not, Erin, you might want to explain that to them. That coating is key.

Yeah, absolutely. The the the coating on the line is basically what's protects the the pipeline. You know, pipeline is steel for for natural gas. It's steel, you know, and it it's the same as, you know, any other piece of steel you have. It it could cause, you know, start rusting, cracking, everything else. That coating is what is on the line to actually protect the pipeline from rusting um from you know anything that could cause any damage to that that pipeline and and we do monitor it. Uh you know we have to this goes off watch and protect a little bit. However, you know, the pipeline itself has to run uh smart pigs through the line every seven years. And believe it or not, you know, if if we're not there during a watch and protect, more than likely, we're going to catch you in seven years because that those those tools are smart enough to pick up a a dent or anything else. Um, and it'll tell us, you know, if it's at 1:00, 12:00, and it'll tell you the exact location and how big it is. Uh so you know you you may not think we're we're you know the pipeline's watching but you know we we still can see it you know we will catch it and and you brought up a great point too Brian about uh you know watch and protect is not just pipelines uh there is a very um there there is a fiber uh that runs not too far from my house it's actually a uh uh part of the it's a government fiber uh that runs to an air force base and anytime any excavation is done along along near that they have to be on site and I think that's a extremely steep penalty um if they do not locate uh notify them on that.

Yeah. I just I I cannot stress this enough to our our listeners that this process again is not designed to hang hold you up in any way, shape or form. It is designed to protect you. They're not babysitting you. Again, that coating is key. That coating is key not only to protect you but to protect the community in the future. Like you said, these things, you know, they are steel. they are susceptible to to all the the bad things that are out there. But this is why that that process is so important to me. How do you see the role of watch protect changing as techn as technology continues to to evolve? I know there are we have members that are actually have vibration alerts and things when they're when somebody's digging near their pipelines, they can get notified. I know people fly over the top of these things. They are watching these things because it is a big deal. But how do you see this changing in the future?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we we fly our pipeline um depending on the time of year, it's either once a month or uh twice a month. Uh and you know, they'll they'll immediately, you know, notify us if something's going on. However, uh you know, there is software out there now uh that that's really just starting to take off both, you know, as you mentioned with vibration alerts um in the ground. However, um there's software now that you can actually put on the bottom of the plane and it will give you a uh extremely graphic picture of what's exactly going on, uh the location of it and and everything else. So, what Kinder Morgan is is starting to get into that market. Um but but the technology that's associated with it is amazing and and to the point that once it sees it, it can actually send a picture to the local operations with that picture in that location. So, you know, if if the plane flies over and you know, if it's half hour from where the the operations guy is, he's going to be there in a half hour, you know, trying to find out what you're doing. So, the the technology is evolving uh like there's no tomorrow, which which to me, I think, is a great thing, you know, like like you mentioned, it's not a big brother. We're we're you know, we are watching, but we are watching for your safety and everyone else's safety.

I know you guys have are running a lot of problems, especially out where these pipelines are are positioned. You know, I've seen deer stands get put up over them. Unfortunately, people come across a wide clearing. Oh, this is a great spot for that. Or that's not a good look. That's that is a monitored rideaway, folks. That uh again needs to be needs to be clear and kept safe for that reason. So, let me ask you, do you happen to have an example of a story where the program made a a clear difference in preventing a damage?

Yeah, actually, I I have a couple. Um, you know, before we started our watch and protect program, you know, e even our documents aren't the best. You know, our line was put in in the in the '50s. You know, documentation back then wasn't the greatest. Uh, this is probably 18 years ago or so, 19 years. And we actually were were digging up, you know, our pipeline. We had a contractor excavating it and um he started going down. The guy was monitoring it and they took another uh bucket of dirt off and the guy went down to actually, you know, verify where it was at. And what what we found was there was a buried valve uh with a stem and a hand wheel on it that was right there. Um had the contractor taken another bucket, he would have ripped that uh ripped that valve handle off, pulled the stem out more than likely, and and that line was full of pressure. So, you know, that that right there is just one one example, you know, where where because of watch and protect the the operator was able to go home that night, you know, there was no issue. Uh downstream customers were still able to to have their gas supply, you know, there was no issues there. So, so that's just one example. Um, another example of of where watch and protect would have drastically helped was there there's a, you know, where where our pipelines are now. Um, when they were installed, it was typically rural areas. Um, as everybody knows, you know, subdivisions are going up all over the place and what where a pipeline was once in the middle of a field, now it's in somebody's backyard. And, you know, it was a case where a new subdivision was going in. Um, there was a phone line that was supposed to go in and the phone line was supposed to go through the front yard. Our pipeline was in the back. However, because the home was finished because the driveway was concrete and finished, uh, the contractor opted to go around the back of the house and thankfully they went 18 in deep, we were 24 in deep. Um, but that could have been a catastrophic failure and and that's one thing where, you know, the watch and protect, the communication would have been key there. you know, we could have helped them. You if you need to go around the back, that's fine, but let's make sure we're doing it in a safe manner. So, you know, that th those are two instances right there. One one a positive catch that really helped and one where the communication could have been a lot better in preventing something just catastrophic.

And not just that, but and I know you've seen it through the years of doing this. I've seen where people have put up pools, in ground pools, and they didn't call Julie or what have you. and then you know the pig finds it, the airplane finds it, whatever it is. And now they've got to move it. So now you've got all that expense that that could have been, you know, shouldn't have happened. Now it is going to be happening. And one thing we haven't really talked about, and I don't want to scare anybody, but I do want people to understand this that we are not talking low pressure gas, ladies and gentlemen. We are talking very high pressure gas anywhere between 300 lb to 1,800 lb per inch. I mean, that is a tremendous amount of pressure moving through these pipelines. So, it is another reason why they like to be there with you just to protect. Watch and protect.

I was just going to say and as a homeowner, you know, you're absolutely right, Brandon, like with putting up an in ground pool or there's there's a lot that you just you don't even know what's underneath. And it's just it's the best thing to do is to just call before and get it taken care of. Go online, look up Julie, and get it taken care of so that you can be safe.

Yeah, absolutely. And and you know, Brian, you brought up a great point. I I've done presentations to fire departments and and uh my sister is actually a fourth grade teacher and I went and talked to her class when they were talking about natural gas and and you know, the thing that really amazes people is they don't really understand, you know, the pressure that we're dealing with. The uh the you know, pressure going into your house is maybe 1 to 2 lb, you know, and as you mentioned, up to 1,800 lb. Uh we we had to blow our line down. Ours was at 800 lb at this time. Uh but due to uh we had to blow it down at full pressure. Um I was half a half a mile away from it blocking a road. Um a guy came up to me and stopped me and he goes, "I just wanted to see what it was. I'm three miles away and I couldn't figure out why this uh airplane kept hovering in the same place." So that's just an example of what this pressure what this pressure is. And you know it it is it is safe to be around, don't get me wrong. um as long as we do follow the watch and protect the Julie and everything else. So it you know that that is the key.

Excellent.

None of us set out to have an accident you know that in that mindset. It's just accidents happen for a reason and we just want to draw attention to these pipelines and attention to this process because it will help everybody.

Correct. Absolutely. As I said, you know, it's it and you said it too, you know, watch protect is is not to slow the project down. We'll do everything we can to make sure your project still goes on. We do not want to delay you. We just want to make sure you go home to your family.

Well, Aaron, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for sharing your expertise, the great stories, and some really good tips. We appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime.

Great. And Brian, thanks as well for your expertise and for being here today.

Thank you.

And to our listeners, we hope this gave you a deeper understanding of Julie's watch and protect program and how it serves as a critical safeguard for communities across Illinois. If you want to learn more about Julie, be sure to visit juliebeforyoudig.com and explore the resources available to support you. And that goes for whether you're a homeowner, a contractor, or a utility professional. Until next time, stay safe and remember, safe digging is in your hands.