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Hello and welcome to Julie's Toolbox Talks podcast brought to you by Julie Illinois Facilities Notification Center. I'm your host, Brian MacKenzie. Thanks for tuning in today. In this episode, we're digging into work zone safety, the hazards that show up again and again on Illinois roadways, how underground utilities and other add layers of risks, and what drivers, contractors, and locators all need to understand to keep everyone safe. Joining me is Juan Pava, safety programs unit chief with the Illinois Department of Transportation. He spent 17 years with IDOT focused on exactly this. Juan, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. It's a it's a great opportunity to be here with you and, you know, try to uh you know, preach a little bit about something that we care deeply here in in Illinois.

Oh, yes. This is uh I'm very excited about this topic. This is another pet peeve of mine, folks. So I am looking forward to the today. So let's just jump right in here. What are the the common hazards you see in work zones? Like example, what are the top three five hazards that show up time and time again?

Okay, if you ask me about five hazards, uh you know, I think that uh the first one is speeding and excessive speed uh for the condition. So, uh, drivers are traveling in highways, uh, and they're traveling at highway speeds into areas where there's a lot of stuff happening. You know, uh, lanes are narrowing, traffic patterns are are shifting, and there's just workers and, you know, activity happening. So, um, so that would be my first one, speeding. Um, the second one would be distracted driving. Uh, you know, we all have these micro computers in our pocket at all times. Uh, but it's not only the phones, you know, it's uh adjusting the navigation system. uh paying attention to your kids in the back of the of the car. Um you know, so so many things are happening not only inside but also outside of the vehicle. Um the third one would be uh rear end crashes. You know, rear end crashes are a number one uh cause of um severe incidents in work zones. Um so as you're well aware, traffic cues can form quickly in work zones. um particularly on high-speed facilities where we're reducing the number of lanes uh and people not paying attention and going too fast uh may not be able to react quickly. Um let me think uh the fourth one is unexpected conditions in work zones. So more from the worker perspective you know what are we doing to make sure that we are predictable. Um so that's a that's a major hazard you know like nonuniform uh um work zones uh it is a a huge hazard. Um and I would think the fifth one or the last one um it's uh unnecessary exposure of workers. Uh you know I think that we need to make sure that workers are doing their their their work within within the area of protection. Um so they avoid unnecessary exposure out there.

I noticed you said speeding because that's um you know full disclosure guys I worked on the road for 13 years. that that road was my office, right? And you know, when the people are speeding by you and not paying attention to you when you're working on the road is terrifying. And if you've never done that, if you've never witnessed that in your life, again, it it is a game changer, especially when you're out on the road and expected to work there. So, please, please, please calm down and slow down through these people, you know, as we go through these. Let me ask you, on top of all those hazards, now when you start throwing underground utilities in there, such as gas, fire, electric, that adds a whole another layer of hazards to work zones, doesn't it?

Yeah, 100%. So underground utilities at a a different level of risk uh because they're not always visible and we don't know exactly what we're getting into before we get into um so um you know a a crew may be focused on traffic control uh excavation, pavement removal, drainage work. So many things happening uh in any given work zone um plus the unknown of what's going to be there uh after you start excavating. And also, you know, striking a a utility can cause, you know, serious injuries, fires, explosions, electric hazards, so many things and disruptions to the traffic flow. Um, so so the the key is to really focus on on a good plan. You know, make sure that you have a plan prior to getting out there. Make sure that you know how you're going to control traffic to keep it out of your work area so you're able to do your work comfortably and address any u, you know, unknown uh address any of these uh emergencies. you know, if you hit the the water main, are you going to have enough space to like bring the piece of equipment that you need to stop it? Uh are you going to have enough uh you know, like do you know where your your workers are going to be coming in and out of your work area? Um so you're able to to um to react to the changing conditions of a work zone. So yeah, uh not knowing what's under your feet uh you know will get you in trouble. So is is is not that we uh that that we come prepared.

Not only underground but overground or above ground right you got high things moving dump trucks. Yeah. So you not only watching cars and vehicles and everything else is going on we've got underground utilities we've got above ground utilities just a tremendous amount of focus has to be maintained in these types of situations. So, what type of equipment works best in this particular case when somebody's speeding, you know, again, as I'm coming into a a a work zone, it says 55, right? I'm going down to that 55. That construction may be a mile away, but people are just, you know, coming up on you and they're, like you said, the rear end accidents are a huge fear of mine. So, what do you do safely? What works?

What works? You know, like we have we have so many tools at our disposal. Uh so it's important for us to make sure that we we know what is going to be happening within the work area so we can uh communicate uh clearly to uh road users. You know we need to let them know how fast we want them to go. We want to let them know what kind of action they should take. Uh and we do this through multiple different tools. you know, we have we have positive protection devices that that shield drivers from um from drop offs and from uh you know, excavations or like concrete barriers or steel barriers. Uh and these provide, you know, a positive separation. Uh but if there's no excavation and we're doing a moving operation, we may want to have let's say a truck mounted uh attenuator. And these these are devices that are designed to absorb crash crash energy. So, um, what we're trying to do is try to, uh, minimize the potential, uh, impact of a when a crash happens. So, if someone is not paying attention and they they don't change lanes, uh, uh, approaching a a work area, they crash something that is designed to absorb energy uh, and it doesn't result in a fatality or serious injuries. Uh, we want to make sure that we, you know, we communicate clearly and directly to road users where we want them to go. So we do this by, you know, using signs and by using um uh cones and drums and pavement markings to guide them positively guide them uh through the work area because the last thing that we want to do is we don't want we don't want people to be guessing uh we don't want to people to be you know making uh rush decisions uh and we want to be able to communicate directly for the conditions that we are creating in the work zone. Um so you know at IDOT our goal is to select the appropriate counter measure based on the roadway, the traffic conditions, the work duration, uh the risk to the workers and to the traveling public uh to make sure that that you know and make sure that these counter measures and these controls are installed um and maintained correctly.

So So there is a reason for the madness, right? the the the reason you're having people merge in advance of that because you're anticipating a traffic backup. You're anticipating some type of road move where you need that type of of distance that's out there. And I guess that's one thing I wish every driver would would know that again as you're speeding through this construction. If it's 55, you may it may bottleneck as you mentioned and then now we're in a traffic situation or there there could be something ahead. So again, please, please, please drive like that as your workplace, ladies and gentlemen. So, let's talk about this. I mean, uh, if you could sit down with every contractor who sets up a work zone in Illinois, what's one thing you want them to understand?

O, uh, that that's a tough one, you know, because I do get to sit down with lots of contractors and and and and preach my gospel here, which is, you know, um, you know, make sure that you're doing a good job. uh you know make sure that you're doing what what you're responsible for. Uh and I would tell them that a temporary traffic control plan is not just a set of drawings or a set of requirements to just check off before the work uh begins. Uh you know when we put together traffic control plans, we're creating a safety system that has to work for actual field conditions. So um you know a plan may look good on paper uh but when you get on the site you may have you know uh site conditions that that require you to you know change it a little bit. So um contractors need to understand that that setting up the work zone correctly is just the beginning. Um but the traffic control needs to be maintained needs to be inspected needs to be adjusted uh to the site conditions. Um I also would like contractors to to think about uh the the workers perspective you know like if you're standing next to moving traffic um what is adequate separation you know what what where do you want uh uh road users to go um can drivers understand um you know that we want them to slow down are we creating the conditions that they have to slow down uh what's going to happen when or if a vehicle enters in the work zone you know do you have escape route so uh we need to build safety into the planning and the execution of the jobs uh and not rely on workers to just you know react quickly when something goes wrong. Um and and and I would reinforce one more thing. Uh you know production and safety they're not supposed to be competing competing uh objectives. Uh you know a well planned work zone um will protect workers and will allow the workers to complete the job quickly. So um it's it's very important for us to you know try to u to prevent any incidents from happening and not have to react to the incidents uh uh happening. So um you know I think that's a very important one you know production and safety they're not competing priorities uh they they go hand in hand.

That is that's fantastic. uh you know all of our accidents even in our world you know when people are digging it's always like whoops you know I I should have known if there was only there are places there are things involved you know like 811 and calling to preventing that like slowing down in the construction zones now what would you tell somebody that doesn't have the power that IDOT does an example would be your municipality crews that are out there working your private locators etc they need to have that mentality of production is is come second to safety right.

And so the the first thing that I would emphasize is that works on safety is not limited to IDOT you know um anyone working near moving traffic uh that includes municipal employees, utility locators, survey crews, um maintenance workers, construction contractors, subcontractors, anyone uh can be exposed to uh to these hazards. Um so everyone should understand what's happening. you know, there should be there should be good communication and coordination in the work area. Um, workers should should be trained. You know, if if you're going to have your folks, your municipal workers being out there, your utility locators being out there, they need to understand what are their responsibilities because everyone has a little piece of responsibility in this huge puzzle. Um, so they need to understand what the traffic control is designed to do and what the traffic control is not designed to do. They need to understand that there is an area under which they have to stay. Um, and if that's not enough space, then the traffic control needs to be expanded. So, um, ultimately I I want every worker to know that their safety matters and and regardless of who signs the paycheck, uh, that if they see something that needs to be addressed, they need to bring it up. So, communicate with the people that are working with you. Uh, if you see something that doesn't look right, it's likely that it's not right. So, communicate with the folks out in the field, address safety concerns before they become a hazard, before they become an actual incident. Uh because, you know, we're all we're all working in this together and and we all can uh can, you know, need to be doing what we're required to do uh to keep everyone safe.

I love that you point that out to have an out, you know, make make room in your safety for in the event that somebody something does happen. And I'm all about that. That's my way of thinking is that have have a way out that you know that I I think that's a huge tip for every our listeners out there as you're building your safety nets. Have a way out of that net just in case. So, let me ask you this and this is always a fun question and since we brought this up so what's your advice to a crew that's been doing this work for 20 years and have never had an incident, you know, I mean, how do you keep those guys complacent? Any We deal with it too in our world, right? You know, it's just everybody gets comfortable. That's not going to happen to me. I've done this 20 years. That's usually when it goes wrong.

Well, um, you know, I I I like to think that the reason why they haven't had any incident for 20 years is because they're doing the right things. So, uh, you know, so I I, you know, and I know experience is super valuable. Uh, but experience does not make anyone immune to the risk and the hazards in a work zone. And uh in fact, you know, one of the challenges with with familiar work is that people can become very comfortable and complacent and they stop um um actively recognizing the hazards. Um everyone out there is trying to get the job accomplished. Um so, you know, you get kind of like the blinders on. Um and in in I know folks out there that have been in the industry as you say for 20 30 years and they have done the same type of work zones, the same type of closures hundreds of times and nothing has happened before. So they start getting complacent. Um so I would remind that crew that that a good safety record is something to be proud of. Uh but it's not proof that that the operation is risk- free. uh you may be doing the same work with the same guys for years and years and years, but there's a driver that has never driven through a work zone before. So, we have to we have to make sure that that we continue to take into considerations those road users that are going through our work zones. Uh we need to keep the conversations happening. We need to keep the safety conversations happening uh before a shift begins. And so, so everyone is aware of, you know, what we're doing and how we're doing it. Um, so you know, I don't think that we should be measuring safety by by how many years have gone without an incident, but let's measure safety by how consistently we are identifying hazards and we're doing something about that. Uh, because that's something to to really be proud of.

Agree. Yeah, 100%. That's uh can't get complacent in this. This next section is one that probably get us fired up pretty good here. Um, it's for the drivers, right? What should they know? And I I know you pointed it out, but again, the most dangerous thing that drivers can do in work zones, is it the thing that they think they guess it is?

Well, it's it's a it's a it's a big one. It's a big one. So, so I I'd say that the biggest concern is that drivers to fail to recognize uh changing conditions in traffic. Um and there's a couple of factors that influence that. Um, one of them is speed is the one that we talk about the most. Uh, you know, and and uh, but it's not simply speed. Speed certainly matters, but a driver can create an a serious hazard uh, even when they're going the speed limit. Uh, and this is by not paying attention. So, or by not giving yourself and others enough space to react to change conditions. Um, so you know, work zones can change the driving environment in a matter of, you know, milliseconds. You know, you could have, you know, like a shovel falls onto the driving lane. So, what's a driver going to do? They're going to slam on their brakes. And that just happens in an instant. So, um, and and even less um, you know, sudden, you know, a a lane that was open yesterday may be closed today. Uh, a lane shift that was in this location may be in that location tomorrow. So, you know, all of these change conditions uh make it difficult for people to navigate. And when drivers are distracted or they're following too closely, they're not giving people enough space or they're going too fast, they're not going to have enough time to respond. Uh and that can create a chain reaction. So, um I would encourage drivers to to do multiple things. So slow down, put the phone and distractions away and and be nice, you know, like give yourself a little bit more space, give the others a little bit space and be be aware, pay attention to the entire environment, you know, who are you behind, who is behind you, you know, what's happening behind the drums, you know, be aware and and drive defensively because it's not just the vehicle in front of you. It's not just the vehicle behind you, but is, you know, everything that is happening around. So it's important for you know just pay attention and be be very aware.

That's again I I I've been in a rear an accident. It was terrifying you know and you had mentioned about being aware who's behind you and there is nothing more terrifying than watching a big rig coming up on you full steam ahead. You know there as I was traveling down to Marion I know there was a lot of work on 57 and 64 there. they had the the semis actually needed to be in the left lane, right? Because the way that the the flow of the traffic was working and that was kind of backwards for people and it was creating creating issues. So, kind of goes into my next question is there are things that the drivers do that they think that are helpful but it's causing a mess.

Yes. Um, you know, and we try to communicate clearly with drivers and but it goes back to, you know, our driver is really listening. Um um so so I I I think that this is a really good opportunity to explain that safe driving in a work zone is uh is about being predictable and and following the traffic control in place. So so merging for example you you mentioned it. So drivers sometimes debate whether they should merge urgly uh or merge late and use both lanes. I use the zipper. So what we have been preaching is that in heavy slow moving traffic um use both lanes to the merging point and merge like a zipper. Uh but that then you know you need to make sure that that um you are being nice and courteous to people around you. Um no don't try to like you know like cut in front of people but you know use your blinker you know like try to make eye contact with the people around you. If the if the the line the the lane with without congestion uh is open, don't fly to it. You know, you can crawl next to, you know, the line and and and and close the gap. Um but that doesn't mean that every work zone has the same configuration or that drivers should ignore the signs. Um also, if traffic is free flowing, try to merge early. You know, that way you avoid a change of lanes at the last minute in um in in high speed. Um so so the the the important thing is to follow the posted instructions. You know we we let people know which lane is closing, where it's closing and what we want them to do. Uh we want people to avoid uh aggressive maneuvers. You know, leave enough room um in front of you and and try to, you know, like have a little bit of space around you as well. Um, don't tailgate, you know, don't don't force your way into traffic, you know, like just try to put yourself in someone else's shoes and and would you like people to drive like that near you? Um, you know, there's other things that people do, you know, they flash their headlights, they use their blinkers. Uh, and I think that that more than that, uh, we want to try to avoid a distraction to other drivers. So, you know, like if you're flashing your high beams or you're like, you know, that can be distracted to other drivers. Um so you know just try to focus on on being aware of your surroundings uh and and avoid trying to manage the traffic around you. Uh but you know ask yourself what can you do to make the situation better? Is me uh splitting the lanes and slowing traffic from going next to me making the situation better or making it worse? If it's making it worse, maybe change your attitude. Uh so, you know, in in slow uh driving conditions, use both lanes to the merge point, free flow conditions, you know, merge early and and be aware of of your surroundings.

That's I think that needs to be a billboard. Be aware of your surroundings. Um especially left lane campers. Oh, there's my jab. I had to get that in there. All right. Okay. So, let's talk about bridging the two worlds together where the road meets the pipe. Right. I mean again from your perspective, how well do highway contractors and underground utility operators coordinate and where are the seams?

Oh, that's a that's a heavy question. Uh, you know, because I think that there is a great deal of uh coordination that is happening. you know, I think that, you know, like I'd like to think that that we all get along really well, you know, but I I I still think that there is opportunities to improve um share information and manage work that overlaps on the same location. Uh you know, highway construction and utility work are closely closely connected. Uh you know, utilities uh may need to be relocated before a roadway project. Um you know, they may need to be protected during construction or access while the road is uh in service. Uh but at the same time, highway contractors are working on their schedules and traffic control requirements, contract provisions and many restrictions uh can can be in place to get your job accomplished. So um I I think that the seams often appear uh when all of those different activities don't line up. Um so so for example a utility relocation uh may be planned well in advance but a change in the highway project schedule can affect when the utility contractor can access the site. Um a design plan may uh you know identify a utility conflict but then fill conditions are different. um or several parties maybe working the same area without you know understanding of you know who is doing what where uh what are the limits um so all of those gaps can lead to delays to rework to unexpected work and you know we want to avoid all of that um so so I think that the best way to to improve and to kind of like close the seams is uh through good good communication and good coordination uh I think that we need to uh bring the people um the right people to gather early to have uh is to establish like clear lines of communication. Um that that don't happen only at the beginning but they happen through construction and that there's constant communication that so we can recognize when when things are not as planned and we can react accordingly and we can create a plan and we're not just uh you know uh shooting from from from our hip. Um so from our perspective uh you know we are uh IDOT is generally uh uh in in charge of design. So we try to identify potential conflicts early and to establish clear responsibilities through contract documents uh to avoid putting crews in in you know like kind of like making things up as they go. Um and make sure that that people are communicating throughout.

It's a great answer there. It's it's another opportunity for me to throw in in our world what we do is we call that a joint meet at a large project because again as you you mentioned earlier you have so many different entities on that job site and if they're all not on the same page somebody very well could hit one of these utilities or or you know have not their own locate request out there. So the joint meet processes and what we do allow that communication barrier to happen five to 60 days in advance notice you know of these large projects. So, that's just another thing that that that could do that we could work together. And I think that's that's the name of the game, working together, communication out there, making sure everybody is safe. Um, again, but in closing though, I want to ask you one of my favorite questions because I'm sure there's you could respond to this for about 45 minutes, but if listeners can remember just one thing from you today, one thing from this conversation, what would it be?

O. Uh, how much time do I have? Because I can talk about this for 45 minutes. You know, I I you know, um, because, you know, I think that that the audience of this of this segment can can be very broad. So, I would want people to to remember that work zone safety is is a shared responsibility. You know, it starts uh it starts way before we put the first cone out there on the road. Um so you know for the people planning and building our roads that means that uh we want to make sure that we identify the hazards early. Uh we coordinate early with utility owners with the different stakeholders to select the the appropriate traffic control and make sure that workers have have the training the equipment and the protection they need. Um for the workers it means uh you know staying aware of the surroundings. you know, make sure that that you follow the plan, that you follow the procedures, that if you see something that is outside of of the requirements, that you say something that that you address the safety concern before it becomes an incident. Uh because no project schedule is is worth putting someone's life at risk. Um for the drivers uh it means that you know slow down you know put down the distractions you know put put yourself away leave enough space to react and make sure that that that you that you take this seriously. You know driving is a is a very uh you know is a huge uh right that we have you know we have the the the benefit of being able to drive around and and and everyone around us want to get to their destination safely. So remember that the people around you, you know, their cars and the people behind the the the the drums and the cones, uh, they're a person. They're someone's family member. They're their friends, their neighbors. Um, so so in Illinois, we we all have a responsibility to, uh, to keep improving how we design, manage, and and operate work zones. And, and that includes, uh, you know, looking at what happened before. So we we continue to look at you know what are we doing how are we doing it how is this impacting uh the road users and how can we make things better um so so you know at the end of the day u you know our goal is very simple you know everyone who enters a work zone should have the opportunity to leave that work zone safely so um recognize that that we as roadway workers we um you know we have a different role every day sometimes we're the driver sometimes we're the worker sometimes we're the planner And in every single one of those roles, we have we have a responsibility to uphold. So as a driver, as a planner, as a worker, uh you know, works on safety is everyone's responsibility and we want to make sure that everyone gets home safely.

Great. I mean, fantastic. It it's been such a pleasure having you here today and, you know, talking about this because again, this is such a pet peeve of mine. But uh thank you so much for being here and to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Julie's Toolbox podcast talks. Today's conversation showed us just how connected the world above ground to below ground really is and how much safer we all could be when drivers, contractors, locators, they all look out for each other. If you want to learn more, visit juliebeforyoudig.com. Until next time, please drive through construction zones like you work there. Stay out of the left lane if you're a camper and always call Julie before you dig. Have a great day.